B: Wrong again Alvin. (Saul’s methodological advice about these experiments.). It is a meal. I’ve been debating this with DG for some time now. Let’s oppose and stop mistreatment of animals in these “factory farms” and instead support those farmers that are humane. You can go weeks without Vitamin C before you get scurvy. Who are YOU, Badger? Sure, some berries here and there but those are seasonal. Anonymous: It all depends on the rest of your child's diet, and exercise. Unsaturated fats (e.g. No one in their right mind can take a guy seriously who deliberately eats meat only for 40+ days! A: Do you have “absolutely no need” for cow’s milk? Here are the main results: The graph shows that when I switched to 30 g/day, I became slower. I benefited from the results. I’m going to take a break but I’ll hit on this one for now. But how much butter can you eat? NASA is quite an organization. A valid concern- I can confidently say that today’s dairy cow lives a better life than any time in history. Life is too short for me to try and educate you on this. Just adding this to what you normally eat for breakfast without making any subtractions could set you up for energy overload. Lactose intolerance in a huge proportion of the world’s human population. (31)”, So, “similar rates of breast cancer in women eating a low-fat diet and in those eating a “regular” diet. Speed of change. I took my time and the stick lasted about 30 minutes each day. No more than 2 Brazil nuts per day is recommended. Their condition could then have been cured in either of two different ways: with fresh fruit containing lots of Vitamin C or with fresh meat. Instead of being used for veal, male calves are raised to maturity to produce Organic Pasture’s 100% grass-fed ground beef.”. Drinking milk unnecessarily beyond weening. I noticed the same speed of change with pork fat and sleep: How much pork fat I ate during a single day affected my sleep that night (and only that night). When it comes to eating healthy, you may wonder where butter fits in. Join national, international, and local QS events. Then I ate 30 g/day for several days. To fertilize the soil? None here. Provisions listed for the British ship BELLONA – 74 guns in 1760 listed as provisions for 650 men for four months: (Source). In fact, researchers are learning that butter actually helps prevent heart disease, diabetes, and cancer. I tried to find the source of this 2003 study to see where it was done and the particular reporting criteria it was based on. Or is it “all the same” in your judgment? Meat, however, already contains appreciable quantities of hydroxylysine and hydroxyproline, bypassing some of the requirement for vitamin C. In other words, your vitamin C requirement is dependent upon how much meat you do not eat.”. “Developed world.” Badger, would you try to “sell” the Maasai (or Mongols) on giving up their dairying cattle? Put butter on everything. Calculating How Much Fat To Eat On Keto. When lions and tigers and wolves and other predators act naturally and hunt them and tear them apart and eat them. Is this a tiny bit excessive or is this alright on the ketogenic diet? Domestication of cattle for dairying alone is upwards of 7,000 years old. Pretending otherwise is foolish. And the reverse is true for those with the lowest? “Balance”? One tablespoon of peanut butter … Try researching some numbers to support your this and come back to me if it turns out you have a valid point. To assess this idea, I plotted speed versus accuracy (each point a different day). Even fruit preserves don’t solve the problem: Whether dried or canned fruit loses it C so much that it could not have been the answer to keep people alive. Cows fed on grass? None at all. Butter continued to decrease in the American diet throughout the 1950’s – 1980’s. "Peanut butter is a great source of magnesium and potassium, two minerals that help to control blood pressure and balance sodium," she shared with The List . cheese, ice cream, fatty meat). But other things also mattered. There are a number of points of contention regarding milk consumption both on this site and on the wider internet, which include: The naturalness of drinking another animal’s milk. Farms and herds got proportionately larger and meat, milk and cheese was bought, sold and bartered for as markets were established. I have rescued dogs, cats (and I don’t just mean taken them in for the night, I mean like off of the middle of a busy highway), I have fed and raised baby birds and set them free to fly away when they were ready. of butter less per year! behind where their food comes from? You should try this also and see how you feel after a few weeks. Someone also with a “vested interest”? …or the farmers could just introduce Mr. Bull to Miss Heifer and … well, you know… let NATURE take its’ course. I didn’t want to revisit the points of contention I stated “because let’s face it, we’ve done that” (haven’t I already said that? How many human field workers – who themselves inevitably add to GHG by their mere presence in a region where they drive cars, or use mass transportation, burden infrastructure, use state services, consume electricity – are needed in the fields to pick your fruit and veggies? You can get too much magnesium; the upper limit is 350 mg or a little over 7 tablespoons of almond butter. Not at all. of cheese a year per person. Later, you responded to my point blank question: If doing what animals do is “natural” and correct will you be eating some poop today? A: “The naturalness of drinking another animal’s milk.” What was it you said about not wanting to “revisit the specifics” we’ve been through before? Have a read of this (if DG allows it)… I trust that a Harvard Institute piece on ‘Dietary Fat and Disease’ is a credible enough source for you?? Taking in too much saturated fat is linked with raising levels of “bad” LDL cholesterol in the blood and increasing internal inflammation. I care about animals and their suffering too. I didn’t want to “revisit” this, you did, by regurgitating an old claim about how mankind’s dairying is inherently brutal to calves – as opposed to gentle and merciful Nature. You just want to post your entire screed again without its’ problematic “specifics” being challenged. Do they eat meat and drink milk because of an overpowering internal demand that you cannot change- or because they don’t know about the abuse or they couldn’t care less? Find your local QS Meetup, learn how to start your own QS group, and register for our annual conference. I find it pretty straightforward. What was it you said about not wanting to “revisit the specifics” we’ve been through before? I collected this data outside of a lab using cheap equipment (a Thinkpad laptop running Windows XP). Aren’t we supposed to reduce our carbon footprint? For example, replace 30 g of butter with 30 g of olive oil. Fast-food burgers, fries and shakes? However, in adults, the percentage of calories consumed from total fat appears to have no significant association with cancer risk, and there is currently no clear evidence linking any specific type of fat with cancer incidence.”, On Breast Cancer it says: “In the early 1980s, most nutrition experts believed that dietary fat was a major cause of breast cancer. To find out, I did an experiment. Nice logic. I discovered the effect of butter using Straus Family Creamery butter. Of course not. I get the distinct impression that you are a bit of a bully, don’t think things through properly and really don’t care much about animals, but hey, you just keep laughing at me big man and sleep easy, Excellent points Alvin, My faith in humanity has been restored. Look Alvin, just research it. I’m guessing you haven’t done much research into this.. Obesity was not as prevalent until our society switched to high carbohydrate and sugar ladden diets. Whether it’s from herbivores, omnivores, ruminants, rodents, primates, BACTERIA, or anything else, those sugars will be broken down and CO2 will be a by-product. Over the last century, It became trendy to eat low-fat diets. Before you go vegan, check out this section, How Milk helped America Win its War for Independence, health benefits of the milk fat globule membrane, 3 Ways Milk Fat can make your body Healthier, Interesting Facts about California Agriculture, Water 339 butts 30 puncheons 60 hogsheads 49,018 US gallons, Beef 462 pieces in 6 barrels weighing 2238 lbs, Pork 777 pieces in 5 barrels weighing 1753 lbs, Water 56 hogsheads and 25 casks of 18 gallons each about 4091 US gallons. And making the adjustment is EASY! Our society has been conditioned into believing that butter is not part of a healthy life. But you know that right? Do you really believe that the world’s dairy cow population can be fed on grass? Hey Alvin, you’re not the sharpest are you? How could they live on meat and milk without factory farms? of butter less/ year than people did in the past. On a post of yours (April 2) you had written: “It’s an interesting tact you take regarding the effects of cholesterol; choosing not to deny that fatty dairy (and red meats), heavy in saturated fats cause increased levels of cholesterol, instead arguing that increased levels of cholesterol are not harmful,”. Only if he’s doing it right…, “Calves are separated from their mothers at an unnaturally young age. Healthy adults should limit their saturated fat intake to no more than 10% of total calories. B: Who are YOU, Alvin to answer for Dairy Guy? If anything the social experiment of eating less natural fats, like butter, this last century has proven how paradigms can change over time. Someone also with a “vested interest”? I don’t plan on trying to develop scurvy to find out. I asked: Do you admit there is a difference between “factory farming” and humane non-factory dairying? So, into a calf or on the ground it goes. Butter consumption collapsed, yet incidences of heart disease, diabetes, and cancer skyrocketed. Within conditions, there was no sign of a speed-accuracy tradeoff (the fitted lines do not slope downward). Who eat their poop. However, you should also be aware of hidden saturated fats in other areas of your diet that may increase … Almond butter for muscle building. The answer to how many nuts per day can vary, depending on types of nuts. I believe he and another volunteer went about a year on that diet and showed that carbs were unnecessary. Sorry, that’s a very strange and slightly disturbing thing to say”. Comparing the 30 g/day results with the combination of earlier and later 60 g/day results, t = 3, p = 0.006. If my diet is evolution-based then obviously my ancestors would’ve had reasonably convenient access to a source of C whatever that might be. And yet, there you go again…, B: I’m simply stating some well-known points of contention without wanting to waste my time making points I have already made on this site… keep up. How much butter is too much butter i just realized that yesterday i went trough a stick of butter (about 1/4 of 1 lb) and this morning as of 11am i already eaten half of another stick of butter and it feels like its gonna become a dailly thing. As for animals mating in the wild as oppose to being forcefully inseminated in captivity, yep, that would seem pretty NATURAL to me. Regarding Vitamin C I looked up some information on why and how we can get by without dietary C (from fruits or plant matter, etc) and I found this on the web by someone concerned with Autoimmune Thyroid Disease: “Meat not only prevents scurvy because it contains tiny quantities of vitamin C, it prevents it because it bypasses the need for vitamin C. Vitamin C is required to form collagen in the body, and it does this – despite being described everywhere as an antioxidant – by oxidation. I was alive when the great advice was to each high-carb. The vast majority of us, particularly in the developed world, have absolutely no need to consume cow’s milk for survival anymore; it is a choice erroneously sold to the masses as being natural, normal and necessary. Higher cholesterol – above 200 – or whatever would normally occur in a healthy individual not on statins – is to be desired in my view. I would suppose in this case that the more humane among the farmers (do we think they exist?…) would continue to milk their cows and/or feed the calves on hand that could use it or pour it out on the ground. Your word? For some European groups like the Swedes lactose tolerance is nearly 100% of the population. In the 1920’s, Americans consumed approximately 72 sticks (18 pounds) of butter per year. Your response: “B: I’m simply stating some well-known points of contention without wanting to waste my time making points I have already made on this site… keep up”. If someone is lactose intolerant… stay with me, now… they shouldn’t drink milk! “So, sorry to interrupt your mutual appreciation Alvin and DG, but I think it is crucial that truths are heard and a sense of balance maintained in this important debate.”. All you’ve brought here is “It’s extremely well documented that…”. “So without wanting to revisit these specifics…”. I’VE BEEN STUDYING DAIRY MY WHOLE LIFE – PRACTICALLY AND ACADEMICALLY – but clearly not impartially or compassionately YOU’RE KIND OF PROVING ONE OF THE POINTS OF THE ARTICLE SO THANK YOU – Your welcome… err which one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophagia#Vertebrates. And because of these beliefs, butter consumption in America declined rapidly over the last century as people began to see butter as unhealthy. I assume you are not a nutritionist or scientist when you are not milking cows.The jury is still out and the health benefits of eating butter remain very much a point of contention. But my eyelashes are coming in longer and darker, my gray hairs are getting less gray. I guess you’re not a historian either. Butter Consumption = 3,900 lbs. If it is…then disregard this entire post and see a doctor: You’re arguing with a ghost 😉, “How else are people meant to make an informed choice otherwise, [I agree…] unless they know the truth [yours?] I’m gonna do my best here because going over and over stuff with someone who is not prepared to entertain reason, is frustrating. Who had the shortest lives and the most heart disease? Badger, go to YouTube and watch “Fat Head – the movie” or “Saturated Fat & Cholesterol Lies”. So what is stopping you from eating more butter? But in the dairy industry it does happen that calves are slaughtered, albeit far more humanely than by lions’ claws and wolves’ teeth. Dairy farming generates significant GHG emissions and is, in part, responsible for the alarming rate of global warming. You never answered what you would do with the “vast numbers of cows” currently kept for meat and milk. My ancestors, and their neighbors… and the tribes and nations in which they lived and survived and functioned and thrived, ate meat and drank milk and made cheese…generation after generation… and did so quite successfully millennium after millennium – all without factory farming. Butter is a food to limit on most healthy diets. Photo by Kristine Mahan. A: “So, sorry to interrupt your mutual appreciation Alvin and DG, but I think it is crucial that truths are heard and a sense of balance maintained in this important debate.” “Truths”? Whatever number is still alive down the road in the future would be wild and “free” and living in Nature – where their numbers would be held in check by natural predation, which will include from time to time the young being stalked and killed and eaten (as seen on countless nature programs) without which of course, they would multiply to the point where they would outstrip their living space’s capacity to sustain them and then begin to die off due to starvation. I could care less what an idiot like him/her/it thinks and I don’t care to educate the masses who’ve swallowed all the líes put out in the 20th Century. Dairy guy, You may have heard of Vilhjalmur Stefansson and his experience in the Arctic and also his participation in an experiment to see if humans could live on meat (and fat) alone. If you use a couple tbsp of butter and couple tbsp of oil, that’s a good 400 calories. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhqlw2_LHrQ. Good luck Badger. Unlike you, I do not believe animals are objects meant for humans to exploit. When I ate less butter, I ate more of other food. And then along comes Badger… preaching: “It’s not possible!…it can’t be…not without factory farms and torturing animals!” Tosh. Ask questions and share knowledge with the QS community. And the reverse is true for those with the lowest? Compared to a 60 g/0 g experiment, this experiment (60 g/30 g) has less variation in other food. But I can’t get a rational admission from someone who thinks cows are being “raped”. The environmental harm caused by animal farming is well documented and scientifically accepted. I am sure you make a hansom living exploiting animals and your website helps tell you customers all’s good, nice one. Or is it “all the same” in your judgment? I asked: Is dietary Vitamin C from fruits, vegetables, plants necessary for human survival? How am I being unreasonable or forcing my belief on anyone? Speaking about heart disease, the Harvard article recommends “the Mediterranean Diet” because it includes “extra-virgin olive oil or nuts, both rich sources of unsaturated fat” then points out below: “This study highlighted that low-fat diets are continuing to lose credibility, and that incorporating healthy fats – such as those included in the Mediterranean diet – can improve heart health.”. Compared to what? May I suggest Lipitor? “Truths”? The time period and the rate of change in demand are the only variables here. Butter is a great source of fuel for our bodies, rich in bioactive compounds, and an extremely cost-efficient source of nutrition. I have zero fear of the cholesterol level naturally occurring in my body but lots of concern with the incredibly profitable drug industry making billions. All that CO2 that was abosrbed by those trees was never released back out into the atmosphere. This guy shares his story about how he lost 150 lbs in 1 year by eating more butter and less carbohydrates and sugar. Our natural, skin-on, roasted almond butter contains 612 calories per 100g. What do you eat, Badger? What about the other colder, darker months of the year? I personally go with the scientists. Look up the Funnel Beaker Culture. Today 9 million cows in the US produce what 30 million cows produced in 1950s. Wait – I’m already doing just that. I agree. On Cancer the article states: “Researchers once suspected an association between dietary fat and common cancers. It’s known as the lactase-persistence gene. That’ll make ya healthy. I personally choose not to consume dairy for companionate reasons. Unless you can quote me a reliable source that’s just not true? A: You never answered what you would do with the “vast numbers of cows” currently kept for meat and milk. That’s depressing. After all, that was my actual point. A stick of butter has about 810 calories so no more than a stick a day if that is the only fat he is eating. What grows there? Did you not understand it? ‘Hate’ is a strong word which you have chosen to use. You do know there is no such thing right? Technology and knowledge have made their lives better just like its made our own lives better. So Harvard itself isn’t sure what the Mediterranean Diet is. Cashews. In so far as it is the expression of the “National Aeronautics and Space Administration” – they “administer” space. Don’t post a blizzard of vegan crap telling me how “unnatural” milk-drinking is because no other animals do it but when it’s pointed out that animals also “naturally” eat poop you play this game of evasion. Maybe my family actually adopted me from a Mongolian orphanage, didn’t tell me and my genetics are such that I simply don’t need supplementary Vitamin C. But I’ve gone without dietary C for years now and I have ZERO symptoms of scurvy and at 54 still have 20/15 vision. They are also among the longest lived. Why? Your response: “B: Farmed animals are “purposefully breed” (I did say this!) People ate a lot of butter in the past. Is this misery really justified when there are plant based alternatives to butter?? Or is it “all the same” in your judgment? Butter is not bad for you, it’s actually a superfood. Right. Badger ought to travel to Mongolia and try to talk the ruddy-cheekd, white-toothed and vigouous Mongols out of eating meat and dairy. But they got by quite well and all this for thousands of years with not a factory farm, mechanized or motorized milking machine or tractor in sight. Sorry, that’s a very strange and slightly disturbing thing to say. So you have at it: Knock your nasty cholesterol down to zero. Finally, you use the way wolves kill their prey to draw a comparison with premeditated, systematic, industrial-scale animal slaughter (150 billion+ animals slaughtered a year!). Eating meat and animal based foods offer more complete nutrition in smaller portions. And I have a big problem with the tactics of some of the supporters tossing out psych warfare terms like “denier” to try to discredit their opponents. It’s a natural cycle that keeps the planet breathing. Our forefather knew this; why else would they eat so much butter. B: Some evidence to back this up would have been useful, rather than just thinking something that simply ‘occurs’ to you has any credibility? Here’s what the World Health Organisation (WHO) says about a “Healthy Diet for Adults”: A healthy diet contains: Less than 30% of total energy intake from fats. It would probably change your life for the better. Butter Beliefs Holding you Back? Due to a change in demand there are essentially two possible scenarios – at either end of the spectrum – that would reduce the “supply” of domestic cows to zero: 1) A gradual reduction in demand which would mean that the number of animals being milked or consumed for food would decrease to zero over a longer period of time. They were left in the earth for millions of years under pressure and that’s where fossil fuels come from. That is a process that WILL occur no matter how that plant material is broken down. Male calves are surplus to requirements in the dairy industry, so routinely destroyed.”. But then its fair to say those sailors in the 1700s were smaller than men today. A: You have no credibility or credentials here that make you superior to anyone. As well as consuming big lumps of fatty butter, they also drank copious amounts of rum when they could and guess what, life expectancy was not great back then. Quoting the diets of 18th century sailors as proof of the health benefits of butter is laughable. of butter per year. Most other animals, I read, can make the Vitamin C they need. How much diesel needs to be burned to harvest a row of corn, wheat or soybeans? The other possible scenario is a gradual reduction of domesticated cattle by a more gradual reduction in demand (over X number of years). I don’t get a paycheck. A: How do we know you aren’t in the nut “milk”, soy “milk” business yourself or hired by them to assault your direct competition – the dairy milk providers? It’s understandable – since it is a government-funded outfit. In your own mind, perhaps. It appears that butter was a main component of the sailors food ration and we can see that eating 18 lbs. You should not deny until you try. “Any negative health benefits and the implications of daily milk consumption.”. Hmm. I’ve been watching the show Marco Polo on Netflix, the mongols drink milk and are fierce warriors. Once a week a lorry with the word “MILK” emblazoned on its’ side (direct from the GALACTIC empire distribution hub) visits my secluded cottage on the rugged coast of Downeast Maine. I asked: Would you try to “sell” the Maasai (or Mongols) on giving up their dairying cattle? In the case of a rapid reduction in demand this number of cows remaining on the farm would be huge, if “overnight”, then 100% of the stock on hand would remain unsold, unmilked (for human consumption) and unutilized on Day One. Yes, milk has nutritional value, which is why ALL new-born mammals drink their mother’s up to weening. This of course has nothing to do with me since I never said “Everyone must drink milk regardless of their tolerance”. I want to also comment on an earlier exchange about Vitamin C between you and Dairy guy. B: Oh dear Alvin, I used the term “developed world” intentionally and specifically so as not to prejudice people like the Maasai. 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